Comments on Rokk's Comic Book Revolution: Comic Book Review: Uncanny X-Men #502

Guys.. As long as Bendis is kept away from the X-t...

2008-09-25T23:42:00.000-04:00

Guys.. As long as Bendis is kept away from the X-titles I think there is hope.

did they ever address why the 198 or so mutants ke...

2008-09-23T23:57:00.000-04:00

did they ever address why the 198 or so mutants kept their powers after M-Day?

@hobosk8er: I agree that the aftermath to Messiah ...

2008-09-23T12:08:47.995-04:00

@hobosk8er: I agree that the aftermath to Messiah Complex has been unimpressive. It certainly seems that Marvel has manage to waste so much potential that was there with the aftermath of Messiah Complex.

@Dennis: LOL!! It probably would take Bendis that...

2008-09-23T12:06:50.032-04:00

@Dennis: LOL!! It probably would take Bendis that long to wrap up his first storyline. I agree that it is sad that good writers do not seem to stay on any one book for that often. It is too bad that Bendis on the Avengers seems to be bucking the current trend and appears to be staying with the Avengers for the foreseeable future.

Good point about violent interrogations often not working. Interesting link. Thanks.

@eddieandlaura: And a quick Google search proves t...

2008-09-23T12:04:10.446-04:00

@eddieandlaura: And a quick Google search proves that it was a Joe Walsh solo song and not an Eagles song. I readily admit that my knowledge of classic rock is probably less than zero!

You make a great observation. There is no doubt that the bad guys are winning in more ways than one in both Marvel and DC. Both titles seem in a rush to create worlds that are many shades of gray as morally ambiguous characters are reigning supreme.

@Ben: Great post. I agree that having certain cha...

2008-09-23T12:01:30.790-04:00

@Ben: Great post. I agree that having certain characters engage in interrogations that border on torture makes sense. Especially in the case of Batman.

And I had the exact same reaction that you did to this torture scene. I immediately wondered why Emma did not just effortlessly and painlessly retrieve the information that Scott wanted. Oh yeah, because Fraction wanted to give us a “cool” and “edgy” scene showing us how the X-Men will do things by any means necessary. I also agree that it was just not in keeping with Scott’s character.

@Kirth: I agree that JQ has decided to make his ch...

2008-09-23T11:58:30.071-04:00

@Kirth: I agree that JQ has decided to make his characters much darker. Marvel has plenty of morally ambiguous heroes. I can certainly understand your frustration and disappointment.

@Ilan: LOL! Fraction totally thinks that he is ha...

2008-09-23T11:55:30.522-04:00

@Ilan: LOL! Fraction totally thinks that he is hardcore. I agree that this comic book is beginning to descend into the realm of fanfiction. Great point about Pixie’s powers. It is just another example of Fraction being ignorant of the character’s he is working with for the sake of his “cool” and “trendy” story.

@Anonymous: Glad you liked the review. You ask a ...

2008-09-23T11:50:52.011-04:00

@Anonymous: Glad you liked the review. You ask a great question about the forgotten plotline from issue #500. I have no idea what Bru and Fraction were thinking.

i am one of the minority that actually likes lands...

2008-09-22T00:31:00.000-04:00

i am one of the minority that actually likes lands art. the only problem i have with it is that it looks like the characters are cardboard cut-outs. I agree though that the writing could use some work. The action scenes were pretty cool and i agree that the nightcrawler/wolverine team up was cool. I think its just a shame that messiah complex was so freaking good and then the aftermath we are left with is just brutal. X-men legacy isnt bad, but careys x-men was better. X-force is pretty good actually, that last issue was great. Young x-men sucks and new x-men was really good. it just seems that so much potential was wasted.
-hobosk8er

The stupid thing is violent interrogations often d...

2008-09-21T23:40:00.000-04:00

The stupid thing is violent interrogations often don't work.
waterboarding et al won't get you info if the person doesn't have it. but they will get you a lie quickly enough to ease the pain, so you can't be sure the info you get is valid.
If someone were shooting needles painfully into my face, I would say anything to stop it, even if I had to make something up, quickly, say whatever they wanted to hear. the psychological tenets of interrogation make much more sense as they are detailed here:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-interrogation.htm
But I gave up on X-Men right after Whedon left anyway. It just seems like not too many good writers stay on a book these days, whereas Bendis will keel over at his typewriter writing his 800th issue of Avengers. The good news is though he'll finally wrap up his first storyline...

Um, I haven't read this issue so I'm not sure of t...

2008-09-21T23:21:00.000-04:00

Um, I haven't read this issue so I'm not sure of the song lyrics, but I'm pretty sure "Life's Been Good" was a Joe Walsh solo song. I could be wrong, though.

I think what rotsman said touches on an issue somebody posted about on another title. The bad guys seem to be winning in more ways than one these days. Over in DC right now, they're literally winning, and in Marvel, the state of "heroes" has regressed so much that it's hard to tell who (or what) they're supposed to be fighting anymore. I remember reading comics when I was kid to see the good guys win; now it's kind of tough to tell who the "good guys" are.

I'd be curious to know if anybody's writing about this really extensively right now. Anybody know of any good links?

I'm not totally against interrogations, probably b...

2008-09-21T20:59:00.000-04:00

I'm not totally against interrogations, probably because I'm a huge Batman fan and his interrogations always border torture. However, this interrogation scene was stupid and pointless. Emma's a freakin' TELEPATH!! Shouldn't she be able to read the cronies mind in order to get the information they needed. But no, Fraction had to make the scene all cool by making Cyclops edgy. News to Fraction, Cyclops isn't edgy, he's a straight guy who likes rules. That scene was just a lame attempt to make the X-men seem "bad" and it failed miserably. I miss Whedon.

..So HOW MANY torture scenes does this make for JQ...

2008-09-21T14:12:00.000-04:00

..

So HOW MANY torture scenes does this make for JQ?

This is OFFENSIVE. JQ is OFFENSIVE.

Take a gander at the Hydra torture scene in Avengers.

Or Tigra beaten senseless (I think it counts as torture.)

WHERE are the HEROES? WHERE are the archetypes that I can look to as AVATARS of unequivocal Right?

From the comics I've read in the past three years JQ seems to think that the Ends justify the Means, when every 1st year pol-sci student learns that THAT is the reasoning of a DICTATOR.

Has the Marvel Universe suddenly turned into Kingdom Come when I wasn't paying attention?

NONE of these "characters" resemble anything that I identify with a "good guy" or a "hero". (And I won't even lower myself to include the current Tony Stark. Try to put THAT characterization in a MOVIE.)

Maybe JQ should take his character Ash and put him in these situations. Maybe we should see Ash torture for the "common good".

As far as I'm concerned JQ is morally bankrupt. And here I thought "dark" characters were out after 1995. My mistake. Then again, (paraphrasing FMillers Bat-thing) I'm not the GD EIC of Marvel.

Worthless.

I agree....Send in the sentinels and round up the Brotherhood of Evil X-Men.

..

"Dazzler adds “Let’s let that dust of yours make e...

2008-09-21T05:21:00.000-04:00

"Dazzler adds “Let’s let that dust of yours make everything just that much more crazy. Won’t that just be, like, completely awesome?”

Ignoreing the whole blatent attempt at a drug refrence, there is the fact that Pixie's dust amkes someone see what they are most scared of. It just shows a poor understanding of the chracter. And I like Pixie. She was fun in New X-men as the naive but good heart ingenue. It's sad to see her get all emo and such, but I chose to remember the happy times.

"Emma turns into her diamond form and suddenly strikes a bodybuilder pose and says that she is the mood to beast down some “savages.”

And really, what the heck? When did Emma get so buff? The art in the picture made her look kind of gross.

This is almost starting to read less like a comic book and more like someone's fanfiction. You can almosy see Fraction muttering to himself as he writes "Dude, that was so cool. I'm totally hardcore!"

Just a little curious.... What happened to the who...

2008-09-20T23:47:00.000-04:00

Just a little curious.... What happened to the whole plot Magneto and the High Evolutionary and the Sleeping Celestial and what not? After two issues of not getting one reference to them, I was beginning to think that I was reading an entirely different comic book altogether. Did Fraction and Brubaker seriously decide to completely place that storyline on a temporary snooze so as to facilitate this piece of crap I've been reading for the past two issues, or did I miss something? Great post by the way!!!

@Islandliberal: Excellent point about Astonishing ...

2008-09-20T21:55:26.196-04:00

@Islandliberal: Excellent point about Astonishing and Uncanny should not have the same roster. The entire point of having the two titles is to give more panel time for more characters.

Land's art has done nothing to help Fraction's story. But, I know bad writing when I see it and Fraction's writing is pretty weak. Not even having George Perez do the artwork could salvage Fraction's story.

Rotsman: I can understand your frustration. Quesa...

2008-09-20T21:52:11.602-04:00

Rotsman: I can understand your frustration. Quesada certainly has made some strange moves.

Uh, I think that first comment is more then a litt...

2008-09-20T17:52:00.000-04:00

Uh, I think that first comment is more then a little excessive. To each his own, I suppose.

Hrmm. I'm thoroughly divided as to what I think about the writing in this book, but I hate the art. From the start, I was afraid that Greg Land would ruin the story, and I can't decide how much of my ambivalence towards this issue is art and how much is writing.

There's a certain relentless attempt to be "cool", and it really come across as the writers trying too hard. There at least aren't any plugs for green science in this issue, but we get more discussion of high fashion, fast car-driving, and generally everyone acting "cool", all rendered with Land's usual plastic, posed, out-of-proportion art. The art just doesn't work. I was originally planning to just buy the Dodson issues, before deciding to try and stomach Land, but I think I'm going to have to revert to my original idea, and then I'll be able to get a fairer gauge of how Brubaker and Fraction are doing.

For all the talk of Uncanny as the X-hub, this so far has just meant a couple of cameos (in this issue, Karma and Dazzler). For the most part, UXM and Astonishing have the same focus characters, which seems like a wasteful use of two separate team books. The contraction of casts after "Messiah Complex" has left a lot of reasonably big characters with stories only told in small snatches in miniseries.

Some parts work really well, such as most of the captions given to characters (my favourite being Dazzler's "Totally fabulous" comment and Storm's "Kenyan Weather Goddess. Bare-Knuckle Streetfighter.").

Still a work in progress.

Let me see if I've got this straight...--The #1 su...

2008-09-20T13:49:00.000-04:00

Let me see if I've got this straight...

--The #1 supervillain is Iron Man.
--Spider-Man sold his marriage to The Devil.
--The X-Men are given carte blanche to do whatever they want, including torture and unlawful restraint.
--...and I'm not even going into detail about Civil War and Secret Invasion.

Quesada needs to GO. I don't want to sound like some curmudgeon here, but this is NOT the Marvel Universe anymore. People have been saying for years that Marvel needs its own "Crisis," but I disagree. What Marvel needs is some kind of "ignore everything that's happened since circa-1991" event and just go from there.

I look at all of these fundamental changes and I think back to the cover of Marvel Age #57. THESE were stories where big changes happened but the core characters remained the same.

Let's compare:

BACK THEN: Steve Rogers gets screwed out of being Captain America, so he puts on a new costume and keeps fighting for the dream.

NOW: Steve Rogers is fighting for the dream and gets assassinated in a bum way to have another "event."

When I've got money to spend on comics, it goes to DC and indies because those are the ones that still tell stories worthy of their legacy. After 40 or 70 years, the way to tell good stories with a character is NOT to give us "everything you knew is wrong," it's to show us how heroism is timeless.

Yes, Clark Kent uses a computer now instead of a typewriter...but he's still all about Truth, Justice, and The American Way, isn't he? He still loves Lois. The fact that he married Lois actually fits the character; he's the elder statesman of superheroes so he probably should be married!

If you couldn't tell, this really torques me off. The X-Men are, in effect, supervillains now. Now I want the government to send Sentinels after them. How did we get here?